Rafeal Newport

• Part 1 - View Transcription

  Coming soon!

• Part 2 - View Transcription

  Interviewer: … and we could just continue this conversation if that's okay. This is part two of our conversation with Raphael Newport for the Trans Abortion Oral Histories Project. Today is September 25th, 2024, and this conversation is taking place virtually. So-

  Participant: I'm putting it. Okay. I just put it in the chat. So… cause I think it's also, this story is important. What's happening to me is what the problem is.

  Interviewer: Yeah, I mean, because I was actually reviewing the recording from our last conversation, which was 20 days ago, and you seemed very still devoted to doing your midwifery practice, so.

  Participant: Yeah, so, because I also wanna answer your question, so let me put a pin in that. And then I'll also talk a little bit about myself. So I am… my full name is Erica Raphael Newport. My mama is from Greenville, Alabama. It sits right between Mobile and Birmingham. But my family is, that side of the family is actually from Georgia and then moved to, to Alabama when a lot of the jobs dried up. And my granny had a total of 14 children, 11 made it to adulthood, and all but one was delivered at home with a midwife. My dad's side of the family is from upstate New York, Rochester, Syracuse area. And that grandmother only had three children, all in the hospital. And my great uncle was once the mayor of Berkeley, California in the late 80s, early 90s. So that just gives you a sense of how different both sides of my family are. Um, my mom's side of the family, we are, um… my great-grandmother was Cherokee and passed away from tuberculosis. And on my dad's side we're Mohegan, and, um, my great-great-grandmother grew up on the rez. I myself grew up in San Jose and I grew up in San Jose during a time when it was going through a transition. So a lot of folks don't know, San Jose actually used to look a lot like Fresno. It was like mostly orchards and stuff. Silicon Valley changed all of that. And when I was growing up, when I was really little, it wasn't Silicon Valley, it just was like industry. But a lot of the orchards and stuff got turned into Google, Lockheed, all that stuff, right? And I came out as bisexual to myself when I was 12, and it was based on… well, I didn't come out as bi. That's not true. When I was 12, I started coming out to myself, but I didn't know what it was. Cause I didn't, I knew what gay was cause I have a couple of family members and whatnot. But because I still was attracted to cis boys, I was like, I don't know what this is. So when I got to high school, my first year of high school, I had a friend of mine, I was explaining to her my feelings. And by then I was like 14. And she was like, oh, you're like bi-curious. And I was like, what the fuck is that? And from there I started outwardly identifying as bi and was super involved in my school. So one of the good things about growing up in San Jose in the 90s was that like we had a lot of booms and bust but the booms were really big. And so I went to a public school but we had a lot of programs. Like my junior high had therapists and I became a conflict mediator when I was 12. And I was a peer educator and a sex educator and a conflict mediator all through high school. But we also had an underground LGBT club. So essentially what would happen is a teacher would kind of sniff you out and pull you aside and be like, hey, would you wanna like go to this group? And I don't know how they did it, but you essentially got given a slip to go and meet. So they basically set it up. So it just looked like you got called out of class, right? But we all were meeting in the library. And then we decided as a group that we wanted to go above ground. And that just so happened to be around the same time that Carolyn Lobb launched the GSA network, Gay Straight Alliance Network. So my high school was the third gay straight alliance in the country. I didn't know that at the time, but soon after I was like, oh shit. So that's how I started getting involved in nonprofit was working with her to take our LGBT club from underground to above ground as a GSA, right? So she gave us, that was… the GSA network originally when it first started, that's what it used to do is go to high schools and help those schools create gay straight alliances. So from there, I started doing more queer youth, health related nonprofit work. By the time I was 19, I had been on a few boards. By the time I was 21, I had worked full-time at two different non-profits. And I went to San Francisco State, got my undergrad in sociology because I originally wanted to be a lawyer, believe it or not. And while I was there and, you know, getting politicized, not only by the nonprofits I was at, because also by the time I got to my second year of college, I moved from San Jose to San Francisco. So I was being politicized by the people around me. Because the early aughts, like… I hope someday somebody does a documentary about all of the queer BIPOC <phonetic 7:18> folks who were fucking throwing down in the early aughts. Like, the Bay Area had all the heavy hitters. So who is the most visible at this point is Alicia Garza, but there was a whole fucking crew. I'm thinking of Sypha <phonetic 7:36>, I'm thinking of Malakai <phonetic 7:38>, the The Brown Boy Project, like all those cats, that's all early 2000s in the Bay. So I was being politicized by some pretty heavy hitters. And also in the nonprofit world was also doing it. Because the way that I grew up was very… I grew up with just my mom. My dad was super abusive, got <inaudible 8:04> kids. My daddy's a fuck boy. I'd say it in a funny way, but also in a not funny way, but it's –

  Interviewer: Like traumatized way. Yeah.

  Participant: You know what I'm saying? It also is kind of funny, you know, because… but I was raised very respectability politics, you know, like my mom wanted me to be in Jack and Jill. So, you know, I had the straightened hair, you know, I was 5'7", 150 pounds, only use the King's English, all that stuff. And so as I got more and more politicized, a lot of that dropped off. The way that I dressed, the way that I spoke, all shifted. Because I was, you know, not only was the Bay having this big explosion, but I'm working at these nonprofits. My friends circle is all organizers. So I… the four years I was in college was a huge arc for me. And...

  Interviewer: Where did you go to college at?

  Participant: I started at San Jose State and then transferred to San Francisco State my second year. Both of them are really… I don't know about now, but then they were both really dope places to be. And what I do love about higher education in California is you got options. You know, if you really wanna go, they figure out a way for you to be there. And I met some of the most dope… like my professors were hella dope. While I was at San Francisco State, the human sexuality program was started. And so I got to be super involved in that. It was really a lot of me being in the right place at the right time, right? And just stuff kind of like coming along as I'm coming up. So in all of that, like this time period that I'm talking about, really from like 19 until about, I would say 29, I also did a ton of healing work. So there were all these different organizations that were popping up. So I've done somatics work, I have done small group, large group. I've rolled around screaming for my mama. And that ended up supplementing what traditional therapy couldn't take care of, you know? So so much of what went into me being good at my job when I became a doula was because I had done all this shit before, right? I had already worked in nonprofit. I had already been advocating, I had already done a bunch of different retreats and workshops. And so I was the prime, the pump was primed and I came in.

  Interviewer: <inaudible 11:08>

  Participant: Right. And so I came in to being a doula and was like, Oh, I've been doing this, you know? Like, um, so yeah, I think that gives a good sense of me. Is there anything?

  Interviewer: What's the time, what's the timeline if you don't mind me asking? You said 19 to 29 years and you said early 2000s for like the Brown Boy Project. I have like their publication. I was actually looking at their booklet recently. I was like, oh yeah, I forgot I have this. So yeah.

  Participant: So I graduated high school in 2000. So this is like 19 to 29. So we're we're talking like 2000 to 2010 is that part of the timeframe that we're talking about. And so much of how the world functions changed. One of the other things that I'm hoping happens is like some of the real folks who were around for the transition between the 90s and the aughts can speak up a little bit more because folks are talking about the 90s these days is like, it really sucked. It was really awful, especially if you were marginalized. And even for all that we're still fighting for, there are things that you can't do and say now that were perfectly fine in the 90s. And what I say to folks is, if you really want to understand what it was like, listen to 90s hip hop. That's what it was like. It was harsh. It was fake. There weren't a whole lot of real ones around. It was homophobic. It was fatphobic. It was misogynist. Yeah, it was rough. And everyone marks the… 9/11 is when everything changed. In my opinion, everything changed when Bill Clinton got impeached. Nothing was the same after that, because we had never had a president impeached for fucking. And I used to have it, I don't have it anymore, but I had kept the news article, because a lot of folks don't remember that, like, his testimony was put in the newspaper. The whole thing. So how I found out how freaky Bill Clinton was, was because I read that shit. There's shit in there that you don't need to know about your president. The whole cigar thing.

  Interviewer: I don't know the details. I don't know. You don't have to share.

  Participant: … the detail putting, taking a cigar and putting it in Monica Lewinsky and then smoking it. That was in the news, like bought the paper, it was like hella big. And that just, it was like, all bets are off. Like John F. Kennedy did not get impeached because he was fucking Marilyn Monroe, but Bill Clinton just did. Oh, we in a new world, right? And we never got an explanation for why he was put in that position. Um and we still haven't, right? So that to me is when it was like… I was like, oh, we this… we don't know nothing about this life now. We somewhere else.

  Interviewer: Because it was, what was it, 98 or 97 or?

  Participant: It was like 90, yeah, like 98, 99. Because I remember like that finished up and then we went right into Y2K. As a senior. I said it to everyone. I was like, all I want is my diploma and then the world can blow up. I don't really give a shit. I just want to graduate. Like, my friends were like, who cares if the world blows up? Like, who cares about the paper? I was like, it's not the paper, it's the ceremony. I wanna walk across this motherfucking stage. Like, I just need that for myself. So going into the early aughts, like by the time we hit 2000, like to me, I already was in the like, yeah, we, I don't… we left what was normal. And I remember telling my mom, cause she was encouraging me… you know, she's a baby boomer. So she was like, okay, you're gonna go to college, you're gonna get a job, get your 401k. And I was like, that world doesn't exist anymore, mama. Like, I don't know what's gonna happen, but the track that you followed is gone. I don't know what we gonna do. And, you know, I opened my doula practice in December 2007. January 2008, the entire economy crashed. And no one knew what a doula was in 2008, so it was definitely an up, a steep uphill battle. So, yeah. Any other specific questions you have for me?

  Interviewer: I mean, you want me to ask you specific questions? I can.

  Participant: I don't, because I was going to get to the Elizabeth Davis part, but I also want to make sure that I, like, give you some of the information that you had come for.

  Interviewer: Yeah. I mean, I guess I'm just interested too, cause you said that around age 12, you kind of started questioning your identity or questioning your sexuality. And I think you said you had like an aunt, you said that was gay too, that you kind of-

  Participant: I had a uncle and an aunt.

  Interviewer: Uncle and aunt, okay. So I was gonna ask you like, what were other like, or how were you first like introduced to like the queer community too? Like how?

  Participant: I mean, mostly them. And more so my uncle, because my aunt was like, this is just who I am. But my uncle was like… my introduction to gay black men was him. Like having multiple people in my life pass away from AIDS were a lot of his friends. And I was like, when I finally realized that's what was, that's who he was, I was like 10, because I didn't… my memory of seeing them with same-sex people is in my head as a kid, I just was like, oh, that's his friend, you know, like, but it was like, my mom has friends too. And sometimes they spend the night, you know, like, cause I was a kid. And like right around 10, I was like, oh, like y'all are together. Oh shit, I got gay people in my world. But also like um early 90s like RuPaul was starting to hit. You saw a lot of gay people on like talk shows and I watched… HBO used to be really progressive and they had a lot of documentaries and stuff like that that I would watch. Like Taxi Cab Confessions. And it was the the first time I saw a trans person was on Taxi Cab Confessions. And I remember Ellen getting a show. And so… and, oh, they had started… I'm trying to remember if I saw the Pride Parade on TV or if it was like… somehow I watched it on TV. I don't know if it was like my uncle showed it to me, but I remember seeing the Pride parade when I was like nine or ten and being like, whoa, like that's possible. And we used to go to San Francisco and Oakland often because it's only like about 45 minutes to either from San Jose and I… my uncle would always make sure we went into the Castro and that was also like these folks are real so seeing men walking down the street, holding hands. And my mom was guffawed. She is homophobic as hell. So she hated it and didn't like it, but she was like, all right, we can come through here because I do like the rainbows.

  Interviewer: Was the uncle and the aunt her siblings then? Or was, oh, okay.

  >>>>[ Audio Time: 19:30 ]<<<<

  Participant:Yeah, yeah. And what's interesting is they're the three youngest of the 11 that made it to adulthood. It's my mom, my aunt, and then my uncle. And my aunt stayed in Alabama, so that's why I'm not really… she came out here for a little bit, but she wasn't… she calls it the gay lifestyle. She's like, I'm not into the gay lifestyle, I'm just gay. And I know that's wrong, but I can't help it. So I do that over here. My uncle, on the other hand, he has some of that too. Like I know it's wrong, but these are my people, so I hang out in the Castro because it feels good. So that was also too, like my introduction was like going into the Castro and hanging out and being like, you know, everyone was free. You know, like there wasn't a hiding and there wasn't a shame. It just was like, we… this our neighborhood and if you coming up in here, then you need to act right. Cause there's more of us than there are of you. So you can feel free to get the fuck out. But also my uncle is, I guess he would be considered an otter. He was like 6'1", usually had a mustache, and was handsome, so that some of… us being able to move in the spaces really easily. So that was my introduction. But like it being a part of me and it not being like that's what's happening with them was the being involved in a club in high school. That's what started making me feel like I'm a part of the community. That's when I really started exploring my own identity in a real way was when I had my own community. And I feel really lucky that I got to do that so young, you know? Because by the time I was 17, though I wasn't telling a whole lot of other people, there was a way that I felt like I at least knew what the identity was for me, you know? And being more masculine of center in my presentation and being bi, like I could do that. Though the one caveat is I often felt like I was kicked over with intersex people and trans folks from the sense of like, you don't belong here. You know, I got told often that like being bi was like, you need to make up your mind and figure your shit out. And like, you're pushing the movement back because you can't figure your shit out. Like, you know, that's what everybody does when they first come out. But look, bitch, it's been four years and you still running around talking about you bi, what the fuck, you know? And I was like that, because I still am. I don't know. And I was on a speaker's bureau with CUAV, Community United Against Violence. And even when I would go to speak at schools, they would be like, how are you doing that? And what I used to say to them is I was like, do you like oranges? Do you like apples? Okay, well, you need to pick one because that don't make no sense. Yeah, I know they're both fruit, but they're completely different fruits. They grow at different times of the year. So why don't you just pick one and that'll be it. There's different kinds of apples. There's different kinds of oranges. What's your problem? There's plenty. Why can't you figure it out? And they'd be like, oh. I was like, right. So I like oranges and I like apples for two completely different reasons. They're so different from each other, but they're still satisfying to me.

  Interviewer: They're sweet. They're still juicy.

  Participant: They're still juicy. I still enjoy them, but they don't compare either. So to ask me like, why do I like apples versus oranges? I'm like, I can give you the things that are the same and similar. But also like apples have this crunch. Oranges are soft. There's a zest to orange. There's not that with apples. And so that, like, that oftentimes… and the youth would be like, oh, now I get it, you know. And even some of the adults were like, oh, you know, I didn't understand by… until you broke it down like that. And I was like, yeah, because I don't… but there's some of y'all out there that are like, I will die on a hill for apples. I only do apples. I think oranges are disgusting. I don't understand why you would fuck with an orange. And vice versa. And I'm not mad at y'all. So why are you all up in my face because I can… because that's you know that was then. A few years after that I stopped identifying as bi because I had dated someone who was intersex, I had dated someone who was trans and I was like that's not bi anymore and we've moved out. So that's when I started identifying as queer. Because I was like I don't I don't give a shit what your gender is. I… who are you and how can I move with that you know? And that's when it really… like folks really got like we don't understand. Because you know I still present straight uh so it's also it still happens to this day where folks will be like <inaudible 24:57>. Because you ain't just gay like you hella gay, right? I was raised by San Francisco where, you know, I was the vanilla cat. Cause I, again, like that, those, my college years, it was just, I got introduced to the kink world. I got introduced to… I remember I had a set of friends, one was bi, the other was a gay man and they were engaged. He was white, she was Chinese, and, you know, he slept with other people, she slept with other people. So they had this open relationship, and they were like, we just, we fell in love with each other, and so everyone thinks we're straight, but we're not, and both of them were kinky, and so… and that was my friend group. You know, like, so I… that's where I feel like I became culturally gay. You know, like I was around these people who were thriving in ways that I was taught weren't possible. You know, it was like, what do you mean? You're Chinese, he's white, he's gay, you're bi and y'all are together. And I appreciate it because it's now, you know, it's made it so like, you really got a swing to shock me at this point. You know, like it's got to be, you know, and I'm down for almost anything so long it's consensual between two folks who are able to advocate for themselves as equals. Any time that's missing, now I'm done. But up to that I'm like, both y'all want to do that, it's all good. But that's when I got introduced to those worlds and introduced it in a way of like you can try it, you can not. Like I was surrounded too by people who were just like, this is what's for us but we don't necessarily think that this would work for you. But if you want to come, come on, you know? Like it ain't no thing. And that's also just a testament to the Bay. I think California to an extent, it's major cities, especially, but the Bay kind of is like you can be as weird as fuck and folks aren't really gonna… I don't know if you… if anyone ever told you, but back in my day there was the red man and the… the red woman and the white man. Both of these people moved around San Francisco fully naked, not a stitch of clothing. And the woman painted herself all red and rode a red bike and the man painted himself in all white and rode a white bike. And you would just spot them periodically throughout the city for like two decades. And then they just disappeared. But it was like just a part of… I think the other guy that's still in existence is the truffle man. He sells cannabis truffles in these copper containers that he made. He's… I can't believe he's still around because I remember seeing him for the first time in 2000. And he walks around with it around his shoulders and he had like mocha and cayenne spice and just regular chocolate. And so it was like all of these… this was like just who lives in San Francisco. You know nobody cares. So I got to be brought up in that kind of environment of like figure out what works for you, figure out who you are and balls to the walls, you know?

  Interviewer: Yeah, that's amazing. I don't know if you wanna start talking about Elizabeth Davis.

  Participant: Yeah, I just wanted to make sure I got, you know.

  Interviewer: Yeah, I mean, I can have all, I have all these questions, but I know you're interested –

  >>>>[ Audio Time: 29:37 ]<<<<

  Participant: You're like, I got a million of them. Okay, so, because this also gives a little bit of history of out of hospital midwifery in California. So Elizabeth Davis is a part of that second wave white feminist group that transformed non-traditional reproductive health care in the 70s, 80s, and into the 90s. And she was considered beautiful, so that's also why she was chosen to be the face. But many of the laws that still exist around midwifery came from her. And NMI, National Midwifery Institute, was founded by her and two other people. And in the early 90s, there were some midwives that decided they wanted midwifery to be legalized in California, because up to that point it wasn't. And they… at that time, OBs hated midwives. Now there's like a, we don't understand y'all, we don't particularly like y'all, but they were like, no one should give birth outside of the hospital. These women are dangerous. And they wanted to make midwifery illegal. So a lot of finagling happened and concessions were made. So what we got in California was yes, okay, you can have licensed midwives, but in order for that to be true, you had to have an OB be your… essentially your supervisor for your practice. You had to go to an accredited school, graduate, you needed to pass an exam, and then once you have all of that you can apply and now you can practice with all of these caveats. However, some of things we did still have back then is you could still do twins. Vaginal birth after cesarean was no problem. Those midwives could do pretty much everything except for prescribe and do abortion. So one of the things that happened in all of that were the folks who had been practicing midwifery were like, I am not doing that. I've been practicing 15 years, 20 years. Fuck y'all. I'll just keep practicing illegally. Come for me. So Elizabeth and crew came up with this thing called the California Challenge. And essentially what the California Challenge is, is you are allowed to take all of your experience. This lighting is weird. I'm so sorry. I know I must look fucking crazy.

  Interviewer: No you look you look fine and we're… also it's going to be audio recorded so you're not –

  Participant: Okay. Yeah I was like but I'm also like I don't want you to feel like I'm looking at a ghost. So you can take all of the experience that you've had up until that point and put it towards getting your credential. So what they do is they look at everything you've done, put it up against the standards and do what's called a gap analysis. So they find like what doesn't fit, right? So what are things that you still need to do to prove that you understand and know how to do these things? That's the didactic part. And then as far as your clinical hours, you end up needing less than half of what's… what is typical because you have all of this experience, right? Um and it costs less and the only… there's only a few schools. I think NMI because they were the creator. It was them <inaudible 33:58> and there were like a couple of other schools that allowed for the California Challenge. Now my understanding is like I think Texas might have something similar and I think there's one other state that might have something similar. But it was a way of of grandfathering in midwives. So fast forward, none of those laws have been updated. All of those laws were created in like 93. None have been updated. The only thing that has happened is there's been some amendments. So one of them was we got rid of OBs being a supervisor. But in order for OBs to back up, we let go of the ability to do twins. So I went to one of the last twin births in like 2010-ish, nine-ish. So that's around the time it happened. And then there was another update, I think in 2015 around VBACs. But my understanding was that not a lot of people were utilizing the California Challenge, but people were still utilizing that to kind of get ahead in the line. And a lot of folks didn't even know it existed, which is also problematic. So I come along in 2020, and I start doing my thing. And back then, this is only four years ago, but back then, you had to do Elizabeth Davis' heart and hands class in order to be a student at NMI. It was required. And I took her class and was like, this bitch is racist and dangerous. A couple of examples. One was we were talking about nutrition and culturally competent nutrition. And she basically said, every culture has a healthy nutrition. I know. I know.

  Interviewer: I'm like waiting for it.

  Participant: I know. Has some sort of healthy nutrition, except for black people. Soul food has no nutritional value in it. Every other culture, you can find it. Soul food has none.

  Interviewer: So she was telling you… telling everybody in this cohort teaching this class.

  Participant: I wasn't the first one she said that to. That was every cohort she talks to.

  Interviewer: This is 2020.

  Participant: This is 2020. This is August 2020.

  Interviewer: After the George Floyd uprisings in Minnesota and everything. This is not 1999. Sorry. Okay, keep going. Yeah, so how was your reaction to that?

  Participant: Oh, I corrected her. I was like, that's not true. And I asked her, I was like, what do you think soul food is? And she was like, everything's deep fried. And I was like, no. My first baby food was potlicker and cornbread. And I dare you to tell me that isn't on point. Um, you don't know what soul food is, so take a knee. Uh, it's not KFC, it's not Churches, it's not Popeye's, it's not barbecue, that's a part of it. But actual soul food is grits, it's, um, freshly churned butter, it's corn, it's okra, it's dark leafy greens. And yeah, you boil it within an inch of its existence, but you drink that water.

  Interviewer: And there's hella spices and nutrients in there.

  Participant: And she was like, oh, I didn't know you right, blah, blah, blah. I was like… so the other example I have, and she said a lot of fucked up shit, but this is my couple of receipts that I bring up. But she had us do this activity where we had to to do a visualization of having a child. And she knew one of the cohort members was miscarrying. This person already had three children but was miscarrying and she knew that and still made her do that assignment and report back, because we all had to report back. So I chose to not report back in protest and in solidarity with homegirl because I was like, this is monstrous. She shouldn't have to do this assignment. She shouldn't have to be here for us reporting back. And she did it, but I ended up having a conversation with her separately and she was a wreck. So this is Elizabeth. And it's been understood and known that she's been problematic, but because of how she's positioned herself… I mean, she's up there with Ina May Gaskin, right? And they're besties. So since then, you don't have to take her class. You can just go straight into NMI. But she still has her hands in quite a few cookie jars, as does Ina Mae and Fry, all those people from back in the day. But as I got started, I was like, one, I don't want this woman to ever talk to me again. Because she at one point asked me if I could connect her with other black midwives, and I was like, I don't need her talking to me. And I also was like, I had started working with preceptors. So a part of when you become a midwife, and at some point I may just like say the whole thing of what it takes to become a midwife, in order to get your hours, you're essentially working for someone else for free, right? And so your preceptor, right, this is your supervisor, has to be a midwife that has been in practice, I can't remember if it's three or five years. I think it's three. They have to be what's considered NARM-approved, which is the National Association for Registry of Midwives. It's the exam you have to pass in order to get licensed. And they have to be approved by your school. So it also makes the pool kind of small. And you wanna have a midwife that's got a pretty steady practice because of the amount of numbers that you need to hit. The other thing about that is it gives that preceptor an incredible amount of power because your hours don't exist unless they sign off on them. If you can do, and I have seen it happen, people who have worked for months and the preceptor was like, I'm not signing on any of that. Now what? And the school can't make them. There's nothing the school can do. So one of the things that I was told on the way in, they were like, stay on top of your fucking signatures. And I'll be damned if it didn't… if it wasn't for the fact that I stayed on top of it and kept receipts, it would have happened to me too. But immediately I started having issues with preceptors, partially because I had a lot of experience. And I said this to my preceptors. I was like, I am not new. You know, by the time I started midwifery school, I had already been in the game like 14 years and I was trained closer to like a midwife than a doula. So I was like, the only thing I don't know how to do is the clinical stuff. I don't know how to draw blood. I can't place an IV, but I can do everything else. I can do CPR. I can do neonatal CP. I got, I'm ready. So please treat me as such. But also I'm gonna be humble cause I wanna make sure that I learn. And the first preceptors I had were two women who were in a co-practice together. One was white, one was biracial Latina, white presenting. And it was problematic. A lot of things that they were saying and doing were problematic. And so I ended up having issues. And the way that it got dealt with let me know that I could not do the typical route for getting through midwifery school. Cause most folks, even though the programs are shown to be three years, it typically takes someone five to 10 years to get through midwifery school. And I was like, I ain't got it. I'm not gonna make it. Cause this is pretty much it. These are what the preceptors are gonna be like. All told, I think I had seven or eight preceptors by the time it was all said and done. But I went back to my school after those first set and was like, I ain't gonna make it. I heard there was this California Challenge, what's up? And their response to me was, that doesn't exist anymore. And I was like, really? So I did some research and found out that wasn't true and sent it back to my school like, here's how it's not true and here's how you're breaking the law. And so they were like, well, we don't even know how this works. So I ended up getting on the phone with the medical board and they were like, we don't either because the school created it. And so both sides ended up being like, it's you. Suffice to say, I got it opened and essentially NMI figured out how the California Challenge worked while doing it with me. So I helped them reshape, reopen, and formulate the California Challenge. And that's how I was able to graduate. I then asked NMI to be in a restorative practice with me for all of the harm that was done. Because there's lots of things that I'm not even mentioning in this moment. But also like, will you pay me for all of this work that I've done? And after a solid year of trying and working with other organizations to try to do so, I was not able to make that happen and they only gave me $1,200. Um, so that's what I mean. Like I've been fighting, I'm fucking tired. And I immediately then started having to deal with NARM because the licensing exam you need to be licensed has a 68% pass rate. That is low as fuck. Nurse midwives have their own exam, the pass rate for that one is 80%. And they did not… NARM did not give me the accommodations that I needed. I had asked for some, they told me how I would get them. I did all of that, they didn't give it to me. And so, let's see, I took the NARM for a second time and didn't pass it in January of this year. And to date, NARM is basically like, you didn't pass it, no, we didn't give you your accommodations. What we can do is give you your accommodations and you can take it again. So I'm still in that particular fight. So again, that's why I was like, I got to this and I was like, bitch, I'm done. I'm done.

  Interviewer: Because how much is it to take the exam?

  >>>>[ Audio Time: 46:17 ]<<<<

  Participant: The first time is $1,200. Every time you take it after that is $600. And you have three years before you have to start over. So if you don't pass it in those three years, you basically need to go back to school and do some shit, and then you can start trying again. The highest number I know of is someone took it six times. Our test is longer than everybody else's. It's 300 questions. You get six hours. They're all multiple choice. And they are fucking backwards. The way that you prepare for that exam and the way that you practice are not the same. So I had to like turn off everything that I had learned and like turn on this testing brain that… I have ADHD and testing anxiety. I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? So I'm still in that process, but all of that means that I can't take midwifery clients while I don't have a license, and I can't get a license until I pass the NARM, period. So after doing all of that to get through school, I got to the exam. And even with all that bullshit, I didn't pass it the first time. I missed it by 20 questions. The second time I missed it by 15. And they're like, you can take it again. You wanna take it again? And we've given them alternatives that could work. And they're like, we don't know how we would make that work for everybody. And the alternative is basically like the California Challenge. I'm like, what if somebody just shows up with all of these people agree that this person knows? Because part of the California Challenge is I had to do an oral exam and I had to do 150 question NARM. They're the same questions as what NARM uses. So I was like, what else do you want from me? I have all of these signatures of all of these hours. I did the didactic work. I have the gap analysis. I did an oral exam, I did a written exam. And they're like, we can't do that. We don't know how. And I was like, but I just told you how. So I'm supposed to meet with them next week, but at this point I was like, I don't even... Chicago, beyond taking that fellowship from me, was the last blow. I was like I have fought for every fucking step I have taken and no one is really protecting me, no one is really having my back and so when that fellowship got taken something in me broke and I was like, yeah, I'm done. I'm done. I have to… I can midwife a midwife, I can doula a doula, but unless y'all are going to give this to me, fuck off. Because I've done, I've gone over and beyond the call of duty. And like I said there's still stuff that I'm not even saying that I went through, that I saw, that I dealt with, that nothing's happening about. And from 2020 till now, I haven't been able to work full-time. So how have I been paying my bills, y'all? I've been staying with people. So that has also run out. You know, a lot of my friends and chosen family are like, I can't hold you anymore. So that's how… that's why I've been broke as fuck and and not had stable housing and not had enough to eat and not had fully proper medical care. Because I have put all of my time and energy in just trying to become a midwife and also carve out a path for other people. Because if you go on NMI's website now, there is a section that says California Challenge. Sign up for the California Challenge. I'm like, that was me. And nobody knows it. The BIPOC Midwifery Scholarship Fund that exists, a lot of folks… let me try to see if I can get that name right. Yeah, BIPOC Student Midwives Fund. That is based in Oakland. That was me. No one knows that was me. And I got the receipts. If that bitch tries it, I got the receipts. Because those were my first two preceptors. And I said to them, you know, if you're going to take on a student of color, you need to be prepared for what a student of color is going to need. And I don't have equipment, I don't have… books are being given to me. There are opportunities like a clinical intensive. They ended up paying for me to do that, which I super appreciated. But otherwise I wouldn't have been able to go, right? And so they were like, oh, we should start like a group because like you're saying you need community and money. And so she created it. And nowhere do you see the work I had to do with them too, for that shit to exist. And it's like, they haven't given me any… the last time I tried to even show up at a meeting, I got treated like a pariah. And I had to tell… there was a couple of people there that I was like, you do know this is like my shit, right? And they were like, we were wondering why they started this. I was like, yeah, it was conversations I was having about what BIPOC midwifery students need in order to get through these programs. Because we're not seeing more black and brown and queer midwives because the shit is fucking hard. And there's not a lot of resources. You basically need to… most of who's getting through midwifery school are people who have husbands, who are making a lot of money, and they've got friends and family who were like, oh, I'll take the kids. The bills are already paid. Because uh NMI is like 25 G's just to go. And then you're gonna spend like probably another 500 or so… now I'm all probably more like 1,200 on books. Then you're gonna need another 5 plus, 500 plus for equipment. And that's if you get to do your hours where you live. I had to move twice. I moved to Monterey and then I moved to Utah to finish my hours. No one paid for that. I did, right? So if you don't have access to all of that, you ain't going and you ain't staying, right? So that's really… and even once you have all of that, you can end up like somebody like me. We've lost a lot of BIPOC midwives because they started and the preceptors were so fucked up to them. I had a cohort member have a nervous breakdown her second year of midwifery school. I came close. So if you make it through all of that, you've got almost 30% of those people not passing the NARM. So you can go through all of that and be just like me. But I took the test. I barely, I just missed, no, doesn't matter. You have to pass that bitch. And then once you do all of that, then you can apply to get your license and then you renew it every three years. And that's only so much protection because you can still go to jail. They can still take your license. And there's still all of these parameters that you have to work within. And not to mention the fact that the organizations that are supposed to help you, like, what is that? CALM, California Alliance for Licensed Midwives and CAM, which is California Something Midwives. Both of those organizations, especially if you a person of color, ain't gonna help you. I've talked to them personally trying to get help and, nah. So, yeah, there is this… I did all of that, like even when I was opening up the California Challenge, I had been in conversation with NMI, I was like, why don't you work with me to create a program specifically for students of color? And we can utilize this California Challenge to get people through, because most people of color, this is closer to how we learn. We just get started. There is no, I went to school first. Most of us, we just got moving. And so we have all of this… and most of us learn experientially. You know, like I learned how to make greens by being in my granny's kitchen and by being in my mama's kitchen. It wasn't something that was told to me. And they wouldn't have it. And that's when I decided to create my own school. Because I was like… my thing is this. Even while I was a student, I got so sick of especially older midwives being like, we need you. You have to come. Like, we need more black and brown midwives, especially queer midwives, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, OK, so you called me here. I picked up the phone. And now I'm being torn to pieces. And you ain't doing shit? So I'm with… I have another friend of mine that said this to me, because when I told her I was going to become a midwife, she begged me not to do it. And I was like, why? And she was like, I love black people so much. I would never ask you to go through what you're gonna go through to do this. And now that I'm done, I feel her. And that's what made me wanna start a school too, is I was like, I don't feel comfortable inviting people into a space that I know is gonna fuck them up and then not give them anything, you know? Cause I could have made money, you know, I could have just opened up a doula practice. I could just open up a school, take people's cash and tell them what I know, knowing full well, they probably won't make it across the finish line. And I'm thinking of a midwifery school that just opened right now as I'm saying that, because that's essentially what they are. You can do your didactic work with them and they don't even really do that. They just kind of like give you a list of books. It's like $10,000. And they're like, we'll point you in the direction, we'll advise you basically, but it's up to you to actually get through the whole program. And I was like, nah, I don't want that. I want to create a school that we can't do everything, but what if the school had one… like, let's have some rituals, you know? Like you come into your first class and like everybody gets some sage, right? It doesn't have to be anything major, you know? It can be something like, here are the ingredients for a sitz bath, right? And that's you're being welcomed in. Because this really is a lifestyle. It isn't a job. Let's help make sure people get their equipment, right, that they need in order to practice. Let's ensure that preceptors are supported so that we can have more of them and hold them better accountable. Because I don't think it's fair that preceptors are being asked to put themselves at risk by taking a student because that puts a risk to their license. And now you're working and teaching. So they should be compensated for that. Otherwise the preceptors often will ask the students to pay them. The students should get some sort of stipend because asking people to work full-time for free in an industry where you can't plan is fucked up. So all my friends who became therapists were like, oh, me too. I was like, no bitch. You can schedule your clients and be like, okay, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, I see people from 10 to three so I can go to work at such and such time. I can't do that. I can't do that. Especially unless I decide to become a nurse midwife, where then I will have set hours. But I'm choosing to be an out of hospital midwife. So them motherfuckers… birth start whenever and they end whenever. And while I'm there, it's like I don't exist, right? So I can be there 24 hours, I can be there 72 hours. So I have to have something that I can drop at a moment's notice. And when you got kids, the people who I know who have children and are doing this, it's even more complicated because they still got to get to school and they still want to see you, right? And so I wanted that. And I also wanted to make sure that folks felt like they had community because midwifery as a practice is losing its sense of taking care of each other. When I first came in, we took care of each other. If I sent out a message at 2 a.m. talking about I need a sandwich, I'm over at such and such hospital, somebody hit me back like, what kind? You do mustard? Right? Now, oh, I just got this message, I didn't even… right. And so I was like, that's because we're not raising them together. We're doing all of this siloing things and we're not teaching folks how to be in community. So then you'll end up having this practice and you feel super alone and this was never meant to be a solo practice. So I want to make sure that that's in there. I also was like, I want to make this a five-year program where you do the didactic part, you do your hours, and then the next couple of years are helping you either get a midwifery job or help you start your program. We have the small business alliance. What if we hooked up with them and you got a mentor and you started building your business plan and where this comes from and that comes from? And I was like it's still not everything really that you need but it at least wouldn't feel so like, well, it's all on you. And I think we we would get more… we would attract more midwives and we would retain them longer with that as the start. And I was like, even just three cohorts of 10, we'd be cool. And then I had split it up so that year one was like a doula training, year two was a birth assistant and then year three was midwifery. So that if you wanted to get off the train at any point, you at least left with something, right? As opposed to like, oh, I spent a year in midwifery school and like, now it's just done. If you finish year one, you will be certified as a doula. If you finish year two, you will be certified as a birth assist. And you can do something with that. And the program was gonna… each class was set up so that you got skills that could be used in other places. Cause the other thing is, is midwifery is so specialized. Once you've committed, you're kind of fucked if you don't know how to do anything else. And so I was like, let's make sure they know lactation consulting, let's make sure they know postpartum stuff. So if they decide, I wanna get off, I wanna do something else, they could be a consultant, they could be an entrepreneur. Maybe they go back and get their undergrad in something else, but you don't just leave them bereft, which is currently how it is. And I was lucky because I came in with an education, skills, and experience in all these other places, so that when I did get burnt out, or when I wasn't making enough money, I could do something else. And it still made it hard and fucked up, but I remember seeing some of the other people in my world be like, I don't know what I'm gonna do now, right? That's all done. I stopped. Cause this fellowship, I told them, I was like, y'all found me right when I was like, okay, in a couple months I have to just go and get a job cause I can't keep doing this. Like they talk about shutting off my water. They talk about repossessing my car. Like I can't give anymore. I've been fighting and getting no credit, no love, no help, no support for four fucking years. And it has cost me shit. Like, my best friend, my sister, passed away while I was in Utah. And I remember thinking, I remember going to see her two weeks before she died, and it took everything I had to get up out of that bed. All I wanted to do was just lay there, and I was like, I'm not leaving till you do. And I thought in my mind, like, if I don't get up and finish these hours, I won't finish these hours. And my sister will be pissed at me, like, bitch, go and get yours. So I had, I peeled myself out of that bed. And then two weeks later, I'm getting ready to get up so that I can go and work in the clinic and I get the call. And I'm like, that is just one of many things that I sacrificed so that I could try and get my midwifery license. And where's mine, right? And my story is not unique. And how is this any different than what we say is happening to people when they go and receive reproductive health care anyway, right? This organization showed up and was like, we value you, we feel what you're doing, we're going to give you money, we're going to give you support, we're going to give you community to do what you do. And then two months later, took it. Because I asked, because… I didn't even ask, I was like, this is not okay. You just, the founder just showed up, literally canceled the meeting with all of the other fellows and was like here's some times where you can meet with me, I want to meet with you one-on-one. And I was like this is not okay. This doesn't feel good. This feels really disorienting. I really would like to meet the fellows before I meet you because what you're proposing means I won't meet them until January 2025. And it's September. And they send me an email that's like, thank you bye. Where's my, I was like, after all of that? After everything that I showed you that I'm doing? After everything I've told you that it's taken for me to be in your face right now? You just gonna take it and nothing can be done about it? Yeah, I'm done. I'm gonna leave this a mess and let y'all deal with it. Literally what I said was this, I was like, look, I'm perimenopausal, I don't got no kids, I am 42 years old, I have enough skills to get me through the rest of my reproductive health journey and I know enough people that can get me through the rest of my reproductive journey. I don't gotta give a flying fuck about none of y'all. A lot of y'all are here because you want a better future for your children. You wanted them to have a better experience than you, or you're here because your mama had a fucked up experience and you want to change it for somebody else. That's why I was here, but where's my protection? Who's advocating for me? I was advocating for us. Because I literally said, everything that's happening for the people we're advocating for is happening to us. So that's also why some people are going to see midwives and seeing doulas and being like these bitches are trash. Because we're fucked up. We're tired or we weren't properly trained or weren't given the things that we needed and so we're passing it down to the client. So what am I doing? If that can rock, I'm I'm just gonna leave this a mess cause I don't have to be here. I don't gotta do this. I didn't have to reopen the California Challenge for y'all. Cause now you get to make money off of that. Now you get to invite students into that. And it's like, I didn't do shit. My name ain't nowhere on it. I'm already working with Elephant Circle. I've been working with Elephant Circle for almost a year. And I'm just… what I said when this opportunity got taken from me is I was like, where's my champion? Because normally, if this would happen to my client in the hospital, there's all these things that I would be doing. But, at every turn I have hunched open something pretty fucking wide and I don't got nothing to show for it but debt, bills, and exhaustion. I have all of this wisdom, I have all of this knowledge that needs to be passed on, and it just won't, right? I have to figure out, okay, there's other ways I can do it, but I have to get there. I still need to be built back up. Everything I gave out, I need it back. I need advocacy. I need money. I need community. I need love. I need protection. And what I'm hearing is, yeah, you do. If I can't get through… California, since I started midwifery training, has lost about five birth centers. Three midwifery schools have closed. The nurse midwifery program at UCSF went from a master's program, now it's a PhD program. So all of those nurses who were teaching will not have a job come spring 2025. That's happening right now. And that's your nurse midwives, friends. That's a different ballgame. Amazon Health now has its hands in birth centers. At this rate, in about 30 to 50 years, you won't have out-of-hospital midwives in California. It won't be worth it. We're starting to lose them nationwide too. Three midwifery schools? I don't think folk really understand. Roe v. Wade shouldn't be your concern. You should be concerned that traditional midwifery is dying. Cause everything that we love, all the things that they purport where it's like, well, this, see, our outcomes are better. That's us. That's not nurse midwives doing that. What you love about a doula comes from midwifery model of care. Traditional midwifery model of care. The traditional midwifery model of care always included allopathic medicine. It always had a partnership with OBs because anything that was outside that midwife scope got handed over and vice versa. You don't really hear that anymore. When abortion was illegal, some of the only ones that you could get a safe abortion from on the down low were midwives. Ina May Gaskin was trained by granny midwives. She writes in her book that it was an OB and books that gave her her knowledge. No, no, no, no, no, no. That came later. Who was first were black granny midwives who saw them roll up into Tennessee in the middle of winter in a fucking bus and were like, you're gonna kill a whole bunch of people and then they're gonna get rid of all of us. So we're gonna make sure that you know what you're doing. So what happens now? What if there is a set of people who go, fuck it, I'm just gonna start doing my thing. Who's gonna train them if all the midwives are gone? Who's the alternative? Where do we get that model from? Do you really think a doula is going to be able to provide appropriate care off of four days of training? Really? So you know that's a setup, right? So that later on when the doulas are shitty and their outcomes aren't as good as when they came from us, they'll start being like, what's the point of a doula? That's already starting to happen, by the way. We don't really understand what they do. Like, they just kind of sit there. Okay. Well, what's the point of a midwife? Because they don't sound any different than when I was in the hospital. Really? That shouldn't be. All of my clients… I'll give an example of just my most recent one. They were like you know I talked to my friends about you know being your client and they're like I don't get any of this. Or I have to pay extra. Like they don't… because I make a… I make packages. I don't do a la carte bullshit because I already know that I'm gonna take care of you. And to me care is from the moment I sign up when we make that contract we gonna work together until up to six weeks after you have that baby. That's how long I got you. And so I've got to give you care that meets those needs from that whole time. And I still get calls from motherfuckers. My oldest babies are turning 18 and I still will get, hey, um, you know there's they're starting to get sexual will you do sex education for my kid? My daughter just started her menarche will you put belly beads on her? Because that's also midwifery. It was for life. Mama's calling me, oh you know what, I think I'm starting menopause. Do you know anything about that? Because I want to do it holistically. Got you. But I've spoken to a midwife of 20 years who was like, yeah I have this client who's postpartum and she keeps talking about she feels cold and I don't know what to do. And I was like, isn't her chi cold? That just means her chi is cold. What's chi? How long you been a midwife? 20 years. I was like, okay, her energy is running cold and you warm that with broth. Is she vegetarian? No. Make her some bone broth. How do you do that? What? You don't know how to do that basic shit? So she was like, what medication can I give her so that she'll start to feel warmer? Before you do that, what about this? I'm not against medication. It has its place. I have looked a woman in the face and been like, just get the epidural, boo-boo. But there's all these things we can do before that. And that's one of the ways that you avoid trauma. I don't… my clients don't do this like, oh if I had known. No, because they already knew. I've already told them. Do you know that there's usually a minimum of three medications in an epidural? Minimum. It's upwards of five. So when you say yes to an epidural, I just want you to fully understand it can also have some effects on you breastfeeding later because of all the fluids they got to put in you. So if there's a delay in you getting your milk, that's why, so that you don't go into this like, something's wrong with my body. Oh, okay. Right? Or I've had some where it was like, oh my god, I was gonna… I just knew I was gonna get some fentanyl, but then you put me in the tub and I was fine. And then there's others who were like, no, that fentanyl was just, that's what I needed. But I'm like, the point of traditional midwifery is we go the least invasive and we move our way up. And we skip if we need to. So if we're in a situation, she's hemorrhaging, I'm not just talking to you about herbs, depending on how much the hemorrhage is. We need to get you some Pitocin. But I've already had a conversation with that birthing person in our prenatals about here's how I work, this is what I sound like when there's an actual emergency. This is how I'll talk to you. And yes, I know you're having a home birth, but I'm still gonna talk to you about a C-section because things happen. And this is not the time to introduce that conversation. That's all midwifery. That's all what a doula should be doing as well. And it's not happening. So I was trying to bring that back and make it work well with what we have. Because also some of this is like, how can we insure people who don't have a lot of money? What if you can't afford organic? I already… I can already tell you right now what to do. I've had clients who were in the foster care system and were like, all I can do is get McDonald's. I'm like, I got you. You can do McDonald's healthy. You just, you've got to finagle. If you got $5 and a stove or a heating source, I got you. That's also midwifery. Because midwifery is looking at all of you, not just while you're under my hands. And some of these strategies are about like how can you actually integrate this into your life? If that person's got three other children I'm not gonna be like well you need to meditate ten minutes every day so you can prepare for your birth. Bitch ain't gonna be able to do that. One of the things I said to this woman, she had four children, I was like what if… you do long drives, right? Yeah. Okay, go and get you some lavender, get you essential oil lavender and I want you to open it while you drive and take a big deep breath of it. Sprinkle a little bit around your car and then drive. Put on some classical music. That's gonna be your meditation. Four weeks later, girl, it's work… and even the kids get calm. Mm-hmm. Because that… she can integrate that. Not everybody can go to yoga. So the fact that I'm getting shut down to this extent too is also like, no, I don't think y'all understand. What we're losing is the only thing that will save us. Because that's still assuming straight people. That's still assuming a certain amount of power and privilege. I'm not even talking about the clients that I have that I've had to get extra creative because they were adopting, or maybe they had a blended family, or because they were queer in various ways, or they were other abled, or neurodivergent. Talking to a client who's clinically depressed and trying to figure out how they're gonna have conversations in postpartum so that they don't get their child taken. Talking to them about what they need to say to their doctor so that they can still get the help they need but not have to worry about CPS. Because they will take your kid. Especially if it's already on the books that you've got some sort of mental health issue. You get postpartum depression, you will look up and your kid is gone, so yeah.

  >>>>[ Audio Time: 82:40 ]<<<<

  Interviewer: So where do you go from here?

  Participant: I mean, that's also, I feel like you showing up was pretty apropos, right? I was like, I have a story to tell, and I'm getting a chance to do that. I've been trying to think about how else to get all of this out, you know? Like I want… but I need help to do it, you know? So it's like, do I do it as a podcast? Do I write a book? Is it all of the above? Do I try to find a documentary? Because that part of being… that still feels important to me, is to have that information live somewhere. Because even if the whole thing collapses… you know, humans are curious, we'll dig it up, you know? So I was like, so long as it exists somewhere, I'm all right, so there's that piece. But otherwise, I've also talked about doing some consulting work and some advising. But yeah, right now I'm not exactly sure. Yeah. Yeah. There are some... I represent a set of reproductive health workers who are trying to do their thing as best they can in the corners that they're in. I'm not the only anyone. And I want their voices to be louder than who's in front. And if nothing else, I want to remind folks that, even though I'm using this as an example, I understand that historically the enemy has looked like Donald Trump, but boo-boo, it looks like Kamala Harris now. I hate to break it to you. The call is coming from inside the house. Because who took my opportunity was a black woman. Who is backing up the president of NMI is a Latina woman. She wouldn't even come to the table to talk to me. She told me I scare her. Who is backing the folks at NARM? It's a white woman at the helm but who they've sent in my direction are two black women. The accrediting body for midwifery schools is now led by two black women. And I had a conversation with them. And the president of <inaudible 85:38> doesn't even know what the procedures are to become a midwife. So I would say, like, the encouraging part is that like if you want to find the folks who are really throwing down, the radical people, they exist, but you got to go and get them. You know they're hiding for a reason. And there's still hope. Because like I said there's some folks who are just like, fuck it, I'm just gonna take care of my people. Like and most of them are queer. We continue to be the ones. And most of them are BIPOC, BIPOC and queer. But a lot of these organizations… like a lot of money got thrown in the air when there was this like there's an emergency maternal health and all this money went into the air and folks busted out their buckets and started collecting. But it's not making it to who would actually make a difference, you know? And my encouragement is like, you know, the fact that media doesn't just belong. You know, it used to be if you wanted to get your voice out, if you didn't have an agent, it wasn't going to happen. You know I'm encouraged by the fact that we can have a George Floyd movement. Because there was a time, like I remember growing up at the 90s, black bodies were still hitting the ground just as much. And the closest we got was Rodney King and them motherfuckers didn't go to jail. So it's not… it's still horrible, but at least now I go like, oh look at all these other black and brown faces, black, brown, and yellow faces that are in solidarity with me, you know? Anti-Asian hate and how that got thrown up, right, during the pandemic, the first initial lockdown. We've started not really talking about it but anti-Asian hate crimes got real. And there was a time that would have never been a major news story, you know? So we are in this time where you don't have to be a conglomerate necessarily to carve out a space and to be heard and to get some attention. It's still it's… you know it's got its issues. You know, TikTok be like, we're just gonna shadow ban you today because we feel like it. But there was a time that you, it… if you didn't get into certain channels, it just wasn't. And folks are able to get their hands on pieces that are quieter, you know. So what even has me like, well, you know, I still want to maybe do a podcast or write a book or something like that, is all because the the internet kept that part of its promise when it said that it was gonna equal the playing field. That was another thing I hope somebody does a documentary on is like there's this idea that everything on the internet is new. I just had to explain to a 27 year old where I was like… because he was like, no, it's it's more intense now. Like things are nastier. And I was like, no, the the internet's always been that fucked up. And he's like, no, no, no. Like you get dick pics. I was like, yes. Yes, the chat rooms had all that. But it made this promise to us of like, it's gonna make everything equal. And like, you know, it was Gen X. So they were just like, fuck the man, and we're gonna paint our walls green and you can skateboard through the office and shit. And mostly it hasn't kept its promises, but it has made a more equal playing field where more voices and more spaces are made and niche can be grabbed on to. And that's what gives me some hope of like, okay. You know and seeing Gen Z start to stand, start to step up and be like, yeah, we're not doing this like this. Which all has me like, okay, there's still a chance that we could still really do this you know. And that there's something that I could contribute that would be helpful. Because that's also my biggest thing is like I don't want to just be talking for the sake of being old and wanting to tell my story. I want to actually be helpful and like give something that folks can use in their communities to do what we've all been trying to do this whole time. You know, at the end of the day, all we want is dignity.

  >>>>[ Audio Time: 91:02 ]<<<<

  Interviewer: Yeah, I mean your story is very helpful like that in itself. You sharing your story is doing the work and is available for our communities too. So don't don't you know disqualify your talking and sharing too much you know because that in itself is powerful.

  Participant: Yes. So that's that gives me… you know and like seeing… you know seeing you pop up on the scene and some of the other folks that I've seen be like something ain't right. Something… you smell that? You know, like I don't know what it is. Y'all keep telling me there's alternatives. Y'all keep telling me there's this other place to go, but something just don't feel right. And I'm like, yes, keep coming. Keep going. Keep searching. Keep digging. And if nothing else, just do it. You know, like the people who are closest to me do get my expertise. I do get calls from my people who are like, uh, what do I do about this? And I, I'm going to make sure that my people are taken care of. And if you send me somebody, if I can do it, I'm going to do it. And if I can't, I'm going to find somebody who can. Because I'm not waiting for this overarching institution to tell me it's okay. They never have. They always get on board after the fact. And if I haven't learned anything from my BIPOC brothers and sisters and those who choose not to identify, it's fuck it. Okay I'm just gonna do it. You know, like what do you need? If I have a piece of it, I'm gonna make sure that you have it too. And that spirit hasn't died, you know? And I love the queer community for that. I love how innovative we are. I love how willing we are, how inclusive we can be, and welcoming and, you know, we'll take trash and make it into a treasure. Still. We still do it. And we make them thirsty for us. They wanna be like, how can we be down? What y'all doing? What you wearing?

  Interviewer: We create the culture.

  Participant: We create the culture, the way you speak, the way you act, and a lot of the most radical reproductive health workers are queer.

  Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah, I've been in this work for like 10, over 10 years, and I've always happened to fall into queer communities in repro, health, and justice, because that's who is behind the scenes. That's who was doing all the work.

  Participant: Yep. And so I'm like, if nothing else, do that and stay up under your folks as much as you can. And take care of each other. Don't leave each other alone. Cause if it wasn't for my chosen family, I would be on the streets, fucked up. But I'm not. I've got good food on my plate. I've got a place to rest my head that's safe and clean and welcoming. And even though I haven't really been able to work and stuff, it's that community that's made sure that I'm taken care of and midwives me. So I'm like, that's what we got to do for each other. And it doesn't take always a lot. My friends have given me what they have. Because sometimes they're like, all I got is an extra room, sis, I can do that. Or one was like, here's $100, go get you a burger. Like, it doesn't have to be, you know, $50,000. It can be like, oh, you know, I can introduce you to this person that knows this organization that could hook you up. Or I made a extra sandwich and I brought it to you. Just, I was thinking about you. And I know being yourself all day just gets to be too much. And that's how I take care of my people, you know? And that's why they do so much for me back is because I don't always have a bunch of money or time, but I'll give you what I got, you know? Like I made some tinctures, it's at your front porch. When you open up the door, it'll be right there. I know you said you were having some issues with your chest so I made you a tincture, it's right there. Oh my God, thank you. Because I mean, you were thinking about them. You did something with intention towards them. This is now medicine that they can use, you know?

  Interviewer: That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing your story. I mean, it sounds like this is a good wrap up to the second part, ending with community and taking care of each other on all these different levels. Like, not just, like you said, financially. Medicinally, emotionally, housing, care. Care is all-encompassing.

  Participant: It's love.

  Interviewer: Yeah.

  Participant: It's love, you know? Like, during the AIDS epidemic, that's also what we did. There was a lot of people who had nowhere to go. We took them into our homes. When the hospitals wouldn't first take us, we did it. Bed people. Meals on wheels, that's just regular ass people who were driving around bringing food to folks who couldn't even get to the front door, you know? So you know I… even with all of this, fuck, what is we gonna do? I'm like we going to do what we've been doing. We going to take care of each other.

  Interviewer: That's beautiful. Well, thank you, Raphael. I'm going to stop the recording now.

  Participant: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

  Interviewer: Yeah.